Talk:Phoenix Knights
Nice work so far! Just an FYI, though: the 26th founding is the latest space marine founding as of 999.M41. A 29th founding would probably not be until several millennia later, and considering how in the 41st millennium the Imperium is supposedly on the cusp of collapse or an otherwise major event, this would be difficult to justify. I'd suggest changing the founding to the 26th or earlier. »Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 04:55, December 7, 2014 (UTC) Thanks. I had to re-do the infobox quickly and I didn't have my founding refference. Will fix TrashMan (talk) 08:12, December 9, 2014 (UTC) Alright, great. Upon just browsing through the article a bit, there are some canon/quality issues that I'd like to see ironed out, but I'll wait until I've taken the time to give this a full read-through before addressing those things. For the most part, however, it seems you've put a lot of thought and effort into making this, and I'd be happy to work with you to make it meet the wiki's standards. '»Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 19:40, December 10, 2014 (UTC) Thanks. I got a lot of help from the 40K geeks at Bolter & Chainsword. The initial draft was horrible. As far as I'm aware, nothing directly contradicts canon. Do give it a read-trough, maybe I missed something. TrashMan (talk) 21:51, December 10, 2014 (UTC) You are correct that nothing directly contradicts canon, but there are certain things that contradict established patterns and traditions held within the canon. I will explain this further once I get around to addressing the issues in full. '»Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 22:12, December 10, 2014 (UTC) Alright, here's an in-depth explanation of the issues I've spotted: *The writing style is too informal. This is sort of a nitpick, but it's a general rule of thumb that the style of writing you use in an article should be formal, not conversational. Colloquialisms (like nicknames and unofficial abbreviations) should be removed in favor of more proper, officially-accepted terms. This sort of issue isn't uncommon amongst newer wiki editors, since they're still learning the proper etiquette. *The chapter's livery doesn't follow the typical theme of Dark Angels successors. Coloration is a common issue amongst fan-made chapters, since people tend to choose colors that look cool rather than those that make the most sense. Chapter colors carry a lot of meaning, and they usually represent something that the chapter views as important or attempt to make a statement about the chapter that wears them. Dark Angels successors tend to choose dark, subdued color schemes that represent their dour, secretive, and reclusive nature. The similarity in color choice also reflects their commonality of origin and goals. However, since you may or may not have an actual army of miniatures painted in this scheme, I'm not going to force you to change the colors if you are absolutely unwilling. But please do take it into consideration, and also keep this information in mind should you create more custom chapters in the future. That, or think of an explanation for the significant difference in livery compared to other Dark Angels successors. It's something that could relatively easily be tied back into the chapter's predicament with geneseed mutation and their eventual name change. *I strongly recommend having the chapter's geneseed mutations result in negative effects in addition to the positive effects you have already stated. This is simply good practice in writing: you should always try to balance positive traits with negative ones, and vice versa. Characters and organizations tend to end up more balanced and believable when you do this. You don't need anything as severe as, say, the Black Rage, Red Thirst, Curse of the Wulfen, or anything else that would endanger the future of the chapter or be otherwise extremely debilitating and/or difficult to cope with. Just something fairly minor, like they can't adjust the amount of melanin in their skin, or their neuroglottis doesn't work. *My understanding was that Luther was turned into a full-on Space Marine when Lion El'Jonson was reunited with the Emperor and the First Legion. However, I could easily be wrong about that, so don't take my word for it. Either double check and/or correct me if I'm totally wrong on that. *Their command structure deviates from the Codex far more than the Ultramarines would probably be comfortable with. If they truly were influenced by the Ultramarines, they would be almost identical to a Codex chapter, just with less Marines. Also, you may want to explain a bit why they use entirely unique names for their ranks, rather than codex-compliant names or the same codex-divergent names as those used by the Dark Angels and many of their successors. If you need me to clarify any of this further or help you to resolve any of these issues, send me a message and I'll be happy to offer assistance. And lastly, a bit of praise on what I feel you've done particularly well on: *The general medieval knight theme is consistent and well-used, yet at the same time not overdone. The naming of individuals, ranks, and locations in particular contributes to this. This is something new writers often struggle with, so it's nice to see you already have it nailed down pretty well. *Dem battlecries and prayers. That's some good stuff. '''»Anonymous ONI agent« [COMMS] ] 00:25, December 11, 2014 (UTC) 1) Yes, I did leave PK and GE in a few places in the article. Was mening to fix that but I forgot. 2) The color choice is deliberate. They were betrayed by the Dark Angels after all, and with the vision of fire/phoenix, it made sense to me that they would completley change the color schemen. Both as a middle finger to the DA and as a symbol of hteir re-birth. 3) So far they have reduced effeciveness of two organs and increased rejection rate of implants. Honestly I was never sure about the mutations and changed them many times. From one angle I wanted mutations that have some parallel to the phoenix, hence enhanced regeneration and heat resistence. Problem is, there really aren't a negative to the phoenix :P On the other I'm afraid to go overboard. Inital draft had the Fire Hawks fire burning, but I quickly dropped that. I could go with the missing/unfunctional beltchers gland, but that's kinda the trademark of Dorns boys. 4) AFAIK, Luthor was too old so he recieved the best normal enhancements. The book remarks on that several times, and his performance despite not being a true astartes. 5) For their low numbers and mode of operation, the standard codex structure just wouldn't work. The organization is the product of necessity and the chapter never switched back (despite the UM trainers grumbles). 99% of the codex is military tactics, not organization anyway. I should probably write a better explanation behind the organization. Granted, the '''alternate rank names are unnecessary and are more of the leftover when I was building it around the knightly concept, and the old knightly orders of the planet. Normal ranks are more commonly used and I could remove the alternates....and I just realized I never wrote they were alternates. Thanks for the feedback, I'm gonna brainstorm over it for a while. TrashMan (talk) 08:46, December 11, 2014 (UTC)